Vytautas Landsbergis, the leader of Lithuania during the dissolution of the Soviet Union, had played important role in gaining independence of Lithuania. He is the Dudayev of Lithuania. Vytautas Landsbergis born in year 1932 majored in musicology and was teaching music history at Lithuania Music Academy when he was elected to chair The Supreme Council of Lithuania in year 1990. He is decorated with the Lithunia State Honors in year 1975 for his contribution to music studies.

Landsbergis joined Sajudis, The Independence Movement for Lithuania in year 1988 and chaired the Sajudis Parliament Council later. Landsbergis was Lithuania representative in the USSR Parliamentarians Congress in year 1989 and elected to chair the Lithuania Supreme Council in year 1990. He resisted to the Russian armies and led his nation to independence. He was a member of parliament in year 1992 and stayed in opposition wing of the parliament within the Sajudis. He is elected to lead the Conservative Party in 1993 and re-elected to that post in year 1995. He is elected to Parliament Speaker in 1996. He published "Lithuania: Independent Again" in year 2000. He's a member of parliament and leads The Conservative Party.

Landsbergis understands the positions of Chechens and participated to the World Chechen Congress in Copenhagen and expressed his views. I talked with him at Radissons SAS Hotel in Copenhagen on the 28th of October 2002. Here is what he said on Chechnya and Caucasus.

Question- We wonder your views on Russian-Chechen conflict. How do you see this problem ?

Landbergis- Russian-Chechen conflict needs internal digestion. Sides of the conflict need to resolve within themselves and get rid of the animosity imbedded within themselves. Russian side must lead this process. The sides must sit down and talk. There's no end to killing. You kill Russians and they come back and raid your village. There's no end to mutual killing. It results with increase in animosity and revenge feelings.

Question- Who is responsible for the current dead-end and animosity ?

Landsbergis- Responsibility lies in Russian heritage. Russian regard to Chechens as an independent state is much difficult. Russians are afraid of a domino effect. An independent Chechen State will be a very bad example to the other members of the Russian Federation. During 1989-1990 we were hearing that conflicts and clashes will be inevitable when the Soviet Union dissolves. Gaining independence seemed difficult. If one nation gained independence, the others will follow it. Soviet Union was too egoistic. Soviet Union wanted to preserve its imperial power.

Soviet leaders knew that The West will support the independence movements. Dissolution of the Soviet Union created automatic legal basis for self-determination for the pulling out states from the Soviet Union.Many gained independence without any bloodshed.

The same process is possible for the Caucasus.

Question- Independence of your country is different then the Caucasus. Your independence got support from The West and from the international community. The case is not the same for Chechnya.

Landsbergis- The West and the international community can support Chechnya too.

Question- But they didn't.

Landsbergis- Yes. There were many things that effected the case of Chechnya. The most important of all is the interests of Russia. Russian interests are more powerful than the independence demand of Chechnya.

Question- What Chechens can do in this case ?

Landsbergis- They can gain their independence thru fight. Russian public and international community must be prepared for the Chechen independence. Double standard politics against Chechnya can not continue forever. There's also a growing anti-war public reaction in Russia alongwith the increasing Russian losses, a new public opinion thinks that Russian war in Chechnya is nonsense. If the Russian war machinery avoids this public opinion then one can expect that the Russian public will react against the war. This may take 3 may be 5 years. In other words, he Russian public will press for an end to war. The Russian public will ask, how many more men will die.

Question- 100.000 men are already killed.

Landsbergis- Yes. For the time being that much but how many more should die. When this killing will end ? Say 400.000 people are killed, what's the end of it. These kind of things have happened in the history.

Question- How do you see the future of Caucasus ?

Landsbergis- It is either Russia will lose all of the Caucasus or will opt a more acceptable and flexible policy. If Russia considers a more

Vytautas Landsbergis, the leader who led Lithuania to freedom

flexible policy then has the chances of staying at Caucasus for longer periods of time.

Question- In view of Russian method of handling the recent hostage crisis in Moscow, can we guess on what kind of policies Russia will follow at Caucasus ?

Landsbergis- Yes. Russia plays against itself.

Question- Hundreds of people died in Moscow movie house. Their fate gives clues on what kind of things can happen.

Landsbergis- Who killed those people ?

Question- What's your answer ?

Landsbergis- We need to see the case. This incident needs transparency. Official stand of Russia and its propaganda activities have strongly effected the international public opinion. The international community now
needs to ask whether the hostage takers fired on the hostages. Did the hostage takers kill 150 people.

Question- Now again back to Russian policies on Caucasus and Chechnya. What kind of solutions are there ?

Landsbergis- Russia still continues with the logic of 19th Century logic of colonization. Russia pursues the policy of intrigues against nations of the region. Azerbaijan-Armenia conflict and Georgia-Abkhazia conflict are the best examples of the Russian tactics to get the people fight with each other. Russia instigates then comes to the region in cloak of peacekeeper to establish law and order. Russia can continue to play this GDG= Grand Deception Game and can stay at the region. But we also have to remark that such policies are out of fashion.

Question- What are your suggestions for Chechens?

Landsbergis- Priority is to stop the clashes first and then establish a dialogue to sit at the peace table.

Question- What are the chances for the recent World Chechen Congress to contribute to the peaceful solution of the Russian-Chechen conflict ?

Landsbergis- I hope it contributes. We will see its repercussions. This Congress brought the Chechen issue to the attention of World Community. The World public will ask why the international organizations do not interfere against this tragedy. Why the human rights are not protected in Chechnya.

Question- Putin protested Denmark and EU- Russia summit is held in Brussels. How the Moscow hostage crisis will effect the EU-Russia relations ?

Landsbergis- Diplomacy has its own rules. Copenhagen and Brussels doesn't make much difference. The war is much important.To end the war has utmost importance. A faction wants the continuation of the war and another faction wants to end it. This is good. It means that the war will come to an end.

Question- What's the Chechnya policy of your government ?

Landsbergis- It is not my government. You know that I'm the opposition leader. The current government is formed by leftists. They're former communists. They're cautious about Russia. They're trying to avoid the anger of Moscow. But this doesn't mean that they're approving the policies of Moscow. They do not openly criticize the mistakes of Russia but at the same time they do not issue confirmation messages to the Russian policies.

Thank you for your time Mr. Landsbergis.